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By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 5:00 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Fear not to stand with the Lady Jillian, Lord Duncan, let not yon high and mighty High Wizardress intimidate you! For I be ally most powerful, my help be most valuable. As was discovered by your legendary countrymen, the noble and heroic Prince Kayne, whose exploits may be read in the tome (now required reading for all cadets at Trinsic Academy) 'The Campaign of Prince Kayne to Free the Slaves in the Hills of Umma, a Most Noble Quest of Justice and Right' by Jillian Griphon.

And if ye must needs use faint words to make this Noble Ideal more palatable to yourself, I shall not quibble the difference betwixt 'right' and 'favour.' For both do touch upon the nature of true power, which, in its purest essence, stems simply from the ability to grant or withold favour and punishment. Given such power to any great degree, any may rule, and 'tis the will of the gods then only nobles should have such power in abundance, such that the worlde be well and justly ruled, be kept in state of order rather than chaos, that the wealth and prosperity created may be guarded and husbanded so as to grow in magnitude and effect, and not be fruitlessly frittered away on matters insignificant.

As well, always do I treat all with the courtesy due their position in society, and their known accomplishments. An engineer be a most valuable retainer, as be a cook. Yet none, as the High Wizardress doth point out, should ask such as these to rule.

And, I find none of my words unimportant, High Wizardess, nor do I find any of your misguided opinions and conjectures and suppositions allowable. Ye do again try to trick me, for if I should ignore some part of your argument, ye shall later say I did tacitly agree to such, and so I must needs respond to all error which ye do propogate, long and tedious though the process be.

Your suppositions and premeses do not even touch on the subject of divine right. What matter it if uman society, elven society, dwarven society, aeros society, all were creations of their respective races? How doth this matter one whit when the aristocracy be raised up to rule over each race as the gods do intend?

For divine right, the favour of the gods, doth ensure that not only the strong shall rule, for if only strength were criteria for rulership, however one might define the requisite strength, then the situation always would be akin to the current civil war in Gning Nar, where the strong do vie only for power, take what they will, enslave most of the population, and no prosperity may exist other than the wealth stolen and horded. Such false prosperity shall inevitably lead to ruin, for none shall create weath, and why should he, only to see it stolen?

Ye like not the society run by the nobility, High Wizardress? Yet methinks ye should like the alternative far less! A worlde where the strong do vie constantly for power, the only peace not set by treaty and tradition and alliance, but rather only the uneasy truce of various factions gathering even more forces unto themselves. A worlde where no crops be planted, save what a small clan might protect, and only with great risk of natural or deliberate destruction. No roads should be built, no books written nor stored, no academies nor universities, where those such as yourself may be protected while ye do master your craft--protected by the very aristocracy whose divine right ye do deny! Ye ask why the gods would wish to set the nobility over all others in society to rule? This be the reason, for without the nobles, the gods would have few worshippers, for who would hear of the gods then? How would the temples be built, the priests be educated, the taxes be collected? For the gods would wish to avoid this sorry state off affairs, and as such they do annoint the arisocracy.

My argument, then, be not based upon unprovable assumptions, nor theoretical constructs unused in the worlde outside academia. Rather, I do show, as with the example I introduced earlier, that senses not held by one can not really be understood, beyond rather superficial explanation, I do and have shown most of the worlde to be in concurrence with the favour of the gods resting upon the nobility, the blessing of the gods, their confidence in we, the aristocracy, to annoint us and set us over the whole worlde to rule. Not to rule in their name, as a priest might, but to rule a society which shall create the conditions which shall allow progress and prosperity to occur, and endure.

For as with the example of the senses not all men held, we now have concurrance in regards the touch of divinity upon all nobles. Since the nobility be the only ones so blessed, it follows only we could see the presence, or lack, of this characteristic. Yet now two others besides myself have described such to you, thus for all ye cannot see its lack within yourself, ye surely must now concede there be evidence for the existence of divine favour, or divine right, which ye, being baseborn and commoner, may never experience, nor notice the lack within yourself, yet as with those who hold not the particular sense in question, from the descriptions and concurrence of we who do posess this touch of divinity, now mayhap ye shall begin to consider the possibility of its existence, outside your perception, yet nevertheless real for that.

And a warning, High Wizardress Alaric. I have humoured your rather casual slander of my Family name, in the interests of amicable discourse. However, do not presume my forbearance shall extend to the use of my name without honorific, as ye did with Lord Duncan in passing. For I be properly called 'Lady Jillian,' and I shall have such proper respect from you; ye have no longer the petty authority over me ye did have as professor when I attended Trinsic Academy, upon my graduation from cadet status there at age 14 the authority ye did hold over me for purposes of my instruction did cease, then and forever. Even if Lord Duncan did allow such blatantly casual form of address in reference to himself, such allowance shall in no way extend to how ye shall address me and speak my name.

By Duncan James Breasnach (Duncanjb)

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 6:16 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Stormy eyes were once more turned. A finger and a thumb were lifted to casually stroke a neatly kept beard. The speech of Lord Duncan was touched with curiosity and reflection.

"Strength without wisdom profits little... and discretion too is key. Ye know Lord Kayne, do you? Much was said of him in Eire even at the time of his birth. A fine man he'd be, a source of pride to his father and a most capable warrior. None, according to our recent lore and such things, has struck so great a fear into the heart of any foe as he. In my own travels throughout the land I was honored many a time to entertain his noble father King Robert and the King's Lady Wife Queen Deirdre . But enough, I grow verbose again. I should like to see this book I think at some point."

"I applaud your courtesy to me Lady Jillian, but I will not be verbose in demanding my title from someone I know not well, nor do they yet know me as well as others do, or may at any rate."

Blue-grey eyes touched with emerald radiance shifted again, amicably. The deep musical voice that came forth was the same in its tone and calm inflections.

"Miss... Alaric is it? Very well. I say to ye again, that ye should fear not if ye don't agree completely with me. I seek not that you agree on the whole with me. I seek only that both you and the young Lady Jillian here understand my personal viewpoint. I'm not come to incite quarrels or bickering or other such things."
 

By High Wizard of the Trinsic Wizards' Gilde (Alaric)

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 7:31 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Poor misguided Griphonling. You are in such a state of befuddlement that I can hardly take you seriously. If you found more of your words unimportant, perhaps you would make more sense, and your opinions would be more indicative of the facts of the situation.

Can you truly dismiss my argument out of hand? Nay, I say, and for you to do such is indication that you yourself cannot prove your own position.

I never made any comment on whether I liked society or not. I said only that the Nobility is not raised to their position by the godhood. Where in my position did like ever enter? Such value judgements are logicless, and have no place in such discussions, and as such are left to those like yourself to burden your words with.

I said nothing of wishing that strength should determine rule, either. I said that such was the case in nature. If Umanity had not created their society, then certainly such would still be the case with us, as well - as it is in the barbaric nation of Gning Nar. But Umanity did indeed create a society, and their society required rule through other means, and as such the Natural order of things was set aside, replaced by the Order Umanity has created entirely on their own. As such it was skill that I thought the most important, and I still do - and it is very clear to me that anyone can be taught a skill - even rulership - regardless of to whom that person was born.

As a matter of pure fact - if the gods do indeed chose the Nobility of the Worlde (for certainly, you claim that they chose the rulers of the Elves, and if such is the case in Aniada and all the Elven lands, then why should they not chose the rulers of other nations?), then why does Gning Nar not have a Divinely Chosen ruler? Certainly, if the gods were to raise up a Noble class therein, by your insistences life would be made better for those in that nation as well as the rest of the worlde. But no Noble class has risen there, which makes it very clear to me that the gods remain aloof from Uman affairs in that nation - and if such is the case in that nation, why should the rest of the worlde be any different?

And you do indeed base your argument on an assumption, if you base it in the godhood. For no proof can ever be carried out to any useful extent on whether or not the gods exist. We all assume their existence, for such is what our religion teaches, but as a matter of pure logic there can never be any factual statement made regarding their existence or non-existence.

And you persist in this nonsense about how I cannot be shown Divine Right. Of course it could be shown, if it existed. Indeed, if a man perceives things that which only he can perceive, is that man not considered mad? And if a madman, joining with others who were likewise mad, were to convince others, through beguiling words or threat of violence, that his insanity were indeed the true nature of the worlde, would that be any proof that his madness were, in fact, the true situation, and the rest of the worlde was in the wrong? Would the man be able to lay claim that such was how the gods ordained, simply because to challenge him would be to go to one's death?

No, indeed, Griphonling, such a case would prove nothing.

If Divine Right were to exist, it would not be as a sense, for indeed the five senses (and even the sixth, that be the sense of the Magickal) be given to all Umans at birth - and even those born without such senses do usually posess the instruments that grant them, though those organs be in disrepair. There is no such organ of Divine Right and thusly Divine Right would have to be considered a state of being, of the kind which, by your admissions, alters the senses of the Body and Mind in some manner. Similar states of being exist, where perception is so altered. The state of being mad, for instance, which I harken to above - such is a state which alters the faculties of the mind, and the senses, and one needs not be mad to note its existence in others. What of a person who is evil? You certainly have been in the presence of evil people in your ventures amidst the Hills of Umma, and I am sure you have noted, in the presence of such people, how the state of being evil has changed their perceptions from your own. From these meetings, you know that evil exists, though you yourself have never been an evil person, and do not percieve the worlde as an evil person would.

Drunkenness is another such state, and it is easily identifiable in spite of the alterations it makes to the preceptions of those who inhabit such a state. For indeed, though I have never been drunk (I do not touch spirits, and I never have, nor do I ever intend to), I can easily recognize drunkenness in a drunkard - it matters not that my perceptions be altered in the same way his are. Indeed, if my perceptions were so altered by drunkenness, I would be less able to see the truth of the situation, and would be less likely to see that both he and I were, indeed, drunkards - not wholly incapable of knowing such, mind you, just less likely. In the case of madness, referred to above, this alteration of perceptions would make it even more difficult to recognize the truth of the matter between those similarly afflicted, for two madmen rarely consider each other mad - indeed, they often consider the sane to be so.

In this manner, it could be said that you are drunken or mad with your power (and Duncan as well, though I daresay he is more towards the sober and sane side of things), assuming it is god-given, and you cannot see that such an assumption is in the wrong, and that you are no more or less than any other person, and that only a happy accident of nature placed you as a babe into the home of a man who calls himself a Duke, and who maintains that title because he has an army to keep him in such a place of power.

Another unfortunate aside (I do hate to be drawn so often from the point) - claiming that the Dragon's words are proof that you are in the right is dubious (for Dragons are known to use words to trap those whom would become their prey), and claiming that Duncan's words support your cause completely is a misrepresentation of his stance (a device which you seem to think is viable in such discourse, for you consistently misrepresent my words as well - this behavior is not acceptable for educated conversation).

As for the protection of ones such as I - I am easily capable of protecting myself, as are all the Wizards in Trinsic. As long as the Wizards' Gilde rules this city, we shall need no protection from anyone.

Know this as well, Griphonling - if it is my wish to call you Jillian, I shall do so, and if your behavior implores me to call you a Jackass, so too shall I do that. If you so greatly desire the title of Lady, prove to me that you deserve it. Prove your position beyond all doubt, and I shall indeed call you Lady. However, until I have proof otherwise, you are naught but a Griphonling to me, deserving of no more respect than any other mortal Uman child.

I thank you for your clarification, Duncan - I assure you, you have incited no quarrel that was not already ongoing, and your position, as I said at the first, is welcome, different though it may be - though I might be more inclined to believe it if you would give some proof of it, just as I would be more inclined to believe Jillian if she would but take a little time to think logically instead of quibbling over semantics and other such wastes of my time.

By Duncan James Breasnach (Duncanjb)

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 9:10 am GMT | Edit | Link |

For the first time in all that he had heard and witnessed of the talk something began to happen to Duncan. Blue-grey eyes with green flecks within their depths lit up with an unquestionable mirth... A musical chortle and chuckles came forth, though his dignity kept him fro an outright guffaw. Duncan began to laugh rather heartily. He was clearly amused by something.

"Drunken or mad, Miss Alaric? Nay I say, for tis only early yet in the day and though I have on occasion been drunk I am not so now. Nor yet has anyone ever doubted my sanity as far as I can tell."

Duncan favored the Wizardress with a calm smile that was one of his brightest.

"Again, Miss Alaric ye speak well. Further I see you are a woman of great dignity and bearing. I would gladly gift to ye the title 'Lady' for respect's sake unless you'd not prefer it so, for to me "noble" is a state of the heart as much as it is a matter of blood and title and such to those who carry thos accoutrements. Nobility is indeed enforced chiefly by martial power. To you, that I concede and your words give me much to ponder. Perhaps it may be said that one thing the gods gift unto people is the ability to inspire loyalty by various means, some of which be honorable, and others less so. The point you raise has merit, the force of arms and loyalty of those fighting for you be what upholds a person with noble title and position. Also, as a babe cannot control where it is born, and to what family, and in what position, I shall concede your argument there to either luck or chance or circumstance of nature or whatever you wish to call it. Will and blessings of the gods aside, I do not consider myself mad or drunk with power, only fortunate to be in a position to weild it. I hope to strive my best to weild it well, that I may be remembered as a good sovreign. Bear in mind that the word noble also has a meaning which concerns the heart, but I know you know this already, and so I opt to elaborate no further."

Duncan paused a moment, and then went on.

"In respect, ladies, to both of you, might I not venture a suggestion? Might it not be better to cease discussion of these matters, at least for the nonce? I am new to this talk and yet I perceive that it will go nowhere save in circles. Arguments and cases be stated, but each person asks proof of the other and yet will not accept as any proof at all of any sort the things which the other person says. Instead, each seems to say that the other purposely twists their words to suit their own purpose and perverts their meaning, leading to yet more talk until we come again around the circle and off we we go again ad infinatum. Is it not better to agree to disagree upon a matter and leave the matter to rest? Anything less or else will lead only, it seems to me, to endless mockery and worse things. Let us agree to disagree on matters and respectfully call an end. If the two of you still wish to have tea together, then do so amicably when the time comes and apppropriate conditions and circumstances are presented for you."

Though he was in fact and truth a Lord in his own land, Duncan was under no delusion that that title or position meant much to anyone in this particular land. He only sought a peaceful solution which did not require the two ladies to stand there mocking and bickering at one another for an indefinite period of time that seemed like it would last until further notice.
 

By High Wizard of the Trinsic Wizards' Gilde (Alaric)

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 9:39 am GMT | Edit | Link |

*Sigh*

Perhaps you have the right of it, Duncan. And please know that my saying that you were mad or drunk with power was only a turn of phrase, to illustrate my point (that is, that Divine Right is a state of being, like Madness or Drunkenness), and I meant neither you nor Lady Jillian any insult or harm by it.

I do see that there have been some unjust accusations in the words exchanged here, on the part of both, and a great deal of unnecessary stubbornness and indignity and disrespect as well. Perhaps it is indeed best to let the issue drop - for indeed, the longer one thinks of the matter, it becomes clear that, like the gods themselves, there is no effective way to prove either the existence or non-existence of Divine Right, as it would be an instrument of the gods, and thusly subject to the same assumptions as those divinities themselves. If one believes it does exist, then for that person it does indeed exist. If one believes otherwise, then there can be no doubt for that person otherwise. However, there can truly be no proof one way or the other, for to prove such a thing would be to prove the existence of the gods, and such cannot be proven, but must be taken on faith.

So, I daresay that you are indeed right, and our conversation has reached an impass, and as such must end in the midst of conflict.

I am indeed honored that you would think of me as a Lady, though I do not desire nor do I need such a title. I am High Wizardess, and that is enough, and friends know me only as Alaric. I would be greatly pleased if you were to think of me as such. I ask this of Lady Jillian as well, for no intellectual adversary should remain an emotional enemy, and I would be sick at heart to think that our harsh words could not be forgiven and would forever cause a cleft between two who might and ought to be friends.

Good luck to you, Lady Jillian, and may the gods shine their blessings on you. If indeed you are in your position by Divinity, and even if you are not, let us hope the gods grant you a long and illustrious life.

By Duncan James Breasnach (Duncanjb)

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 6:15 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

At the last, finally he found himself able to smile again. Blue-grey eyes lightened with an inner joy. They we turned upon each of the women with a kind expression.

"As ye say you desire not a title Alaric, I'll use your name as you prefer. I'm honored that you would give me the privilidge of your friendship. I shall take it with gladness and give ye mine as well in return."

With a regal turn of the head he spoke again.

"As to you, young Lady Jillian, I extend to ye also my best wishes and high regards. May the gods smile on you and grant you prosperity and great joy in your life."

By Rhadamanthus son of Shaffan (Wyrm)

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 8:52 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

What is a number, but a placeholder of no intrinsic value, which is used only to describe a property of another thing?

Ah my sugar plum you prove you have ignored the dragon. For his argument on the position of numbers was that they are like the concept of colour and shape. That they are not place holders as you would suggest but rather categories that exist in our minds, written there at birth. Necessary for our power of reason to act upon, they are known, and functional, but not things that themselves have properties knowable through the senses. Thus proving that one may know a thing and prove a things existence without showing some property that can be made known through the senses. If it is easier for you, consider the concept of colour let me return to my first example. One knows colour, we know what it is, can define such a thing, but never see such a thing in nature, we only see specific colours - red, gold, et cetera. Thus I do not have to show you what divine right looks like, smells like, tastes like, et cetera no more than I have to show you what Colour looks like, smells like, et cetera, to convince there is such a thing as colour- if it were such a concept of the mind.

I can also show you it exists by deduction, in the same way an alchemist may teach the laws of attraction and repulsion between two lode stones without having to show her student some sensible quality of the law itself. The architect could not build an aqueduct had he not some knowledge of the regular motion of water- called a law. The law of the motion of water is not in the water but deduced from watching it flow. Ask builder to give you a part of his law to hold.

As for bees being the model of uman society, wolves are far more simple than bees. Bees societies have far more structure. Queen bees like uman kings possess special abilities that make rule by birth and that is mine argument. Umans are the same as bees, no the birthing capacity is not confined to the king (although it should be), but other qualities are. Superior intellect, health, strength, charisma are the qualties that might make a uman king. But he like the queen is born to his thrown.

I am not sure I need to respond the below for it is logically inconsistent- you posit

You can prove all you like that Umans are creatures of Nature, but 'tis of little matter here;
1. Patterns in nature are wholly separate from patterns in society.
2. Society is not... is merely a Uman construct, just as a stone wall or a castle parapet is a Uman construct. Neither creation is a creation of Nature,
2. and as such the patters of Nature do not apply to them. So to it is with Society. Uman's build society, as they would build a city, and just as they control the shape and size of that city, so to do they control the form and extent of their society.

3. certainly the forces of Nature operate within both, this does not mean that society is wholly confined to the patterns of nature, for 'tis the whole purpose of society to sever man from his natural, chaotic instincts, and the patterns of beasts such as yourself.

a) If the uman is a natural thing than all that he does is therefore natural for something cannot come from nothing (basic principle of logic)
b) as the uman is a thing of nature, exists in nature, and requires natural things to sustain its existence, then umans are entirely confined by nature - except perhaps in their relation with the gods, for only they are outside of nature.

If something is not inside nature it is outside of it or above it - or supernatural. A uman builds a wall on natural principles for a natural purpose - to keep in his cattle so that he may feed his belly, to keep out wolves, to feed his belly, to keep out orcs that would take his natural life by natural means. The orc too is driven by natural desire. Unless the gods interfere with the natural patterns you will conform to them - you cannot build a wall in the air, nor on top of water, the wall like the uman will conform to nature. I ask, and you have not shown anywhere that umans are a) not natural, b) that they have any powers to act outside of nature, c) you have not given one example of an act of society that is outside of nature. Bees build walls, they build entire hives, how different is your stone wall, your castle, your city than a hive than the wood and vomit construct of a bee?

Thus I have proven that Divine right may be known other than through the senses. That much of our firmest knowledge is not given us by the senses (such as logic and mathematics - a further example is a simple equation 2 x 2 = 4 is not a fact of nature it is a construct of thine mind the proof being that the answer would differ if one had a counting system that began a 1 and ended at 5 rather than 1 to 9 +0). The senses I have shown are untrustworthy - none has countered by hot water experiment. One could therefore deduce the existence of the Divine Right by mathematics, and if so, could show its truth. Now I have not done this nor said that it is possible, my point is only that we have good reason to believe in the truth of things unknown to our senses.

Another way a thing may be known is by its deduction from nature. We watch two objects behave the same way time and time again we can say there exists a pattern, which learned men call a law of nature. We never experience such a law directly, as I have demonstrate we do not see the law of repulsion and attraction, rather we only watch similar objects behave in the same way and ascribe a law given us by the gods. Divine Right I content is such a Law of Nature. If we look at things that are similar to umans and watch them time and time again behaving the same way we can ascribe a law. So I point to bees and wolves that they have rulers set above them. There is for bees and wolves a law of rule.

I compare these patterns with the activities of umans and find that similar patterns exist and thus, by deduction I say that there is a law of rule for the uman. The law that pulls an apple to ground is the same for wood as for water, for metal, and uman flesh. Thus I can say like the law of falling things, there exists a universal law of the rule of society. Bees may differ in their rule and what make their king as the rule that pulls a feather to the earth would seem to apply differently to that which motivates a stone, but in essence it is the same. Some pattern of society acted upon by some quality at birth of the leader creates a ruler. A ruler is thus always born to rule.

The only counter argument has been that umans are not natural and patterns only apply to that which is natural. I would concur that patterns do not apply in full to the gods, but umans are not gods. They are made of, subsist in, and upon nature and are therefore wholly natural things. All that the uman does is therefore natural. If all natural things follow laws, than umans too follow laws and so to does the law that governs their societies. If the gods are the fathers of natural laws than the rule of umans is the result of a divine law. This divine law I call a Right.

There is no other conclusion but that the rule of umans is by the divine. As it is unwise, if not impossible to tamper with the rules of the gods, it would be unwise to consider overthrowing your king, unless you are confident that it is you to whom the right has been given. This friends is the essence of Tragedy. But that is another lecture.

So sayeth the Wyrm
 

By High Wizard of the Trinsic Wizards' Gilde (Alaric)

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 12:04 am GMT | Edit | Link |

You wait to long to say your piece, Wyrm. The conclusion has been reached that the argument is at an impass, and that you can no more convince me of your position than I could convince you of mine.

As such, your arguments (which are flawed, by the way - I never said Umans were unnatural, only that society was, which you have not challenged) come to late to be of any useful import, and to challenge them further at this point would be to spin in the circle that Duncan warns of.
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 2:32 am GMT | Edit | Link |

If ye should leave off in discourse High Wizardress, 'tis of little moment, for your belief or nonbelief in the divine right of the aristocracy to rule shall no more alter the fact of its existence than if ye were to dispute the outcome of a mathematical equation, or from which direction the sun shall rise in the morn. For all shall be as 'tis, A is A always and for all time.

Yet, think ye not to get off so easily in your slander and incorrect address of my noble self. Prove to you I be deserving of the title 'Lady,' ye do request, I might almost say demand, were not a demand from you to me so ridiculous as to be readily disconted as misinterpretation of the words rather than near lese majesty.

Very well, High Wizardress, here be your proof of my deserts: I am the Third Daughter of His Grace the Duke Griphon, Viceroy of Daelows, General of the Husaria, Warden of the Eastern Marches, Deputy Marshall of Daelows, Lord Councillor to the King of Daelows. My eldest sister shall be Queen Marcella of Daelows. Her twin shall be Baroness Rutledge, Governess of ElHazir, as well as heir to the title as the future Duchess Griphon. As I have neither title nor royal post, though I do hold the rank of Commander in the Daelows Army, I might be called Commander Lady Jillian, but always at the least Lady Jillian, by right and ought, as the daughter of a titled nobleman.

Further, I would remind the illustrious High Wizardress the penalty in Daelows for failure of a commoner to show proper and required respect and courtesy to a noble be one dozen lashes, with summary judgement and immediate punishment allowable. For never shall I tolerate discourtesy, politeness must needs be maintained at all times. Even yon most horrid and vile beast doth show me proper respect due my station, as well doth Lord Duncan, thus your lack of courtesy to me be all the more singular and glaring.

By Rhadamanthus son of Shaffan (Wyrm)

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 12:08 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

It is never too long a wait to bring or receive enlightenment my divine harvest peach. Where be the error of mine thoughts? Let me simplify my position so that you may understand it thus hold it, for it is the only logical conclusion, thus only by the admission of thine ignorance must thee deny it. Please examine this syllogism:

1. umans are wholly natural, as we have agreed
2. something cannot come from nothing (a basic principle of logic that all should agree to)
3. the Society of umans comes from umans - you have said this.
C. Therefore the society of umans is wholly natural.

Now consider this:
1. All natural things are subject to the laws given by the gods -called Natural Laws
2. Society is a natural thing (as proven above)
3. All societies establish some method of rule
C. Therefore that method of rule is governed by a Law of the Gods. If that method imposes upon thine lands a regent than that regent is given you by the gods.


Let me help thine position. I do believe, in the last, there may be a hint of light. Prayer. Bees, as far as I know, are not given this power. By Prayer the gods MAY intercede in thine favour and thus alter the laws that govern you. No other power, not even Reason, will raise you above the law of the gods.

Most Serene Third Daughter of His Grace the Duke Griphon, Viceroy of Daelows, General of the Husaria, Warden of the Eastern Marches, Deputy Marshall of Daelows, Lord Councillor to the King of Daelows, The Freedom Giver of base slaves, Conqueror of Barbarians, Slayer of Wizards Evil, Slayer of Goblins of the Horde, Keeper of the light of your race, may, by the grace and mercy of the King of the Gods, the reign of tine ancestors be kept always.

Wizard Most High of the Guild of Wizards, Keeper of Mysteries, Matriarch of Holy Trinsic, Defender of the Rights of umans, Ravishing Beauty of Aniada, thine crown, though ye chooseth to call it not, hath been granted by the grace of the King of Gods as well. May thine noble spirit hold upright thine place of magic and thine beauty and rule never fade.

Mine reign is also given me by the King of the Host of Heaven, remember this and mine arguments when thou sendeth to their doom thine subjects brave. Mayhaps give it them in answer to the widows and orphan I make of thine subjects when they come to thee, lamenting and gnashing their teeth.

So sayeth the Dragon

By Duncan James Breasnach (Duncanjb)

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 7:20 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

He listened astutely to everything but did not offer many further words. He did take a few moments to say:

"I've enjoyed this discourse. Perhaps I shall see one or more of you again. I hope that is the case. High Wizardress Alaric, Lady Jillian, my best to ye both. And to ye also, most regal Draconian."

A bright smile was given to both of the women together, and a nod of great respect to the dragon as well. Duncan did not feel the need or the urge to speak further at the moment.
 

By High Wizard of the Trinsic Wizards' Gilde (Alaric)

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 7:57 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

O, but you are an exasperating pair.

They say politics makes strange bedfellows, and to that I must agree.

Wyrm - I must remind you that my only title is High Wizardess, and it is the only title I wish, though I will take your compliments at their apparent intention (it must always be kept in mind that your true intentions are very rarely known), and thank you for them anyway.

As for your proof - you cannot assume that everything comes from something else, for indeed, if that were so, how could you answer the question: "From whence do the gods come?" Any answers to such a question are wholly speculation. Aside from that, simply because a thing has its origins in another thing which happens to be a part of Nature does not make that first thing a Natural Thing - indeed, one does not see castles or looms or fishing nets occuring naturally.

Since the first half of your proof is faulty, the second, which follows from it, is likewise faulty.

As for you, Jillian - again, simply stating that something exists is no proof that it does so, and to prove a thing of Divinity is beyond anyone here; hence my reasoning for dropping this argument.

Your titles show me naught, so do not bother me with them. And if you wish to deliver lashings, certainly feel free to inquire at my chambers in the Gilde Tower South in Trinsic, and we shall see what comes of it.

Believe whatever you like. I shall not waste any more of my time with you. I have matters of greater import to attend to, and the hour of the Council Meeting is nigh.

By Duncan James Breasnach (Duncanjb)

Monday, September 6, 2004 - 4:56 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Duncan could not help but to sigh. The look in his eyes became somber. He turned his back and turned his thoughts inward. "I, for one Miss Alaric, apologize for taking so much time of yours. I know you don't need my leave to do this, but by all means please go ye now, and prepare for your Council Meeting. Perhaps we shall see each other again."

Duncan himself would say no more unless provoked into it. The very end of the exchange, particularly the callous blather of the 'Lady' Jilllian left him annoyed and very nearly heartsick. At least the dragon had been courteous to the end of it.
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Monday, September 6, 2004 - 5:33 am GMT | Edit | Link |

High Wizardress, from this moment forward, I declare your name anathema to me. Your lack of respect and courtesy be extremely distasteful, the more so as I have been the very image of politeness, your misunderstanding of your position in the worlde be as well unacceptable. Know well this then, if we should meet again, 'twould be to your disadvantage.

By Rhadamanthus son of Shaffan (Wyrm)

Monday, September 6, 2004 - 12:58 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

The uman is as fun to eat as it is to reason with! But how can a dragon and a philosopher, abandon enlightenment?

I see all wish to disengage, but how can a noble creature like myself permit another step away holding a firm belief in something so wrong? It would be an injury to you my Sweet! A bruise upon a soft ripe fruit that spoils it, and the rot doth spread. No, I shan't let thee abandon the Truth just yet. I shall shout this if thee turn away now.

[you cannot assume that everything comes from something else, for indeed, if that were so, how could you answer the question: "From whence do the gods come?" ]

"Something cannot come from nothing" is true, my spicy Thapalalian Plantain, for it is a logical absurdity to say other. Nothing is nothing, it has no origin, nor properties it is simply the absence of, thus when one multiplies by nothing she will get nothing always - it cannot therefore beget a thing. A thing cannot both Be and Not Be at the same time for that is a contradiction- the very essence of a contradiction. In order for Being to be derived from Not Being that is what would have to occur.

The question of the origin of the divine therefore need not be answered in this debate, although certain conclusions would seem to follow (and I would urge one consider such necessities if one seeks Truth)

Mine syllogisms stand unmoved and ought to be accepted by all who would use logic and reason to form their beliefs rather than blind acceptance of a principle.

The dragon however did forget his manners, for he had forgotten to address the Eirishman, and hopes sincerely that the fellow forgives him.

Aye let us here a heart felt rendition of God Save the King master minstrel!

By Duncan James Breasnach (Duncanjb)

Tuesday, September 7, 2004 - 5:00 am GMT | Edit | Link |

"Fear ye not the obtaining of my forgiveness Draconian lord. Ye have it, and I wish ye well, as the son of a race of people that have long held your kind in great respect and reverence."

As it had been asked of him by the Noble Dragon, he proceeded to produce by means magical, a most wonderous thing. For lo and behold there stood before him upon the ground an ornate golden harp with strings of solid brass. Playing this with the nails of his fingers rather than the tips, Duncan called for a moderate-to-quickly-paced tune which was infused with a most noble vigor and great rousing poignancy that wafted up from his fingers and the delicate solid brass strings of his harp to reach up and soar into the heavens high above.

((OOC- Think either something like "Brian Boru's March" or "O'Sullivan's March" (as used in the film Rob Roy, but adapted for play on a harp.))

By Anonymous

Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 2:00 am GMT | Edit | Link |

$7,000,000

This is what Arcane players sound like OOC:

(HER): *snorts* I just got a variant of the nigerian bank scam email (twice) in my inbox
(HER): Or rather, I just noticed they were sent
(HER): Am amused
(HIM): I answer them
(HER): Why?
(HIM): "I accept your offer for 20% of US$35million. Please send me your bank accounts numbers immediately so I may withdraw the funds. Thank you!"
(HER): Ah, i see
(HIM): But nobody has given me account numbers yet
(HIM): Too bad
(HER): LOL
(HIM): I'd love that 20%
(HIM): And I always say "Thank you!" but apparently it makes no difference
(HIM): I begin to suspect they are ALL lying
(HIM): I keep hoping maybe ONE of them is telling the truth
(HIM): Overall I am not impressed with the email coming Out Of Africa
(HER): You are -such- a goofball
(HIM): People keep saying that!

By Anonymous

Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 5:14 am GMT | Edit | Link |

This the Rant Section, so I will rant. If you don't want to read it, don't. If you do...Good, learn something from it!

First of all, what the heck is with people complaining things do not go fast enough? Geez, people, things only go as fast as everyone involved, and you know what? Things can't go faster if you don't post more then every four days!

Another thing, if you want things to go fast post more then one or two flemming lines! What the heck can I do with a four line post? I don't care if all you are doing is 'talking', if you traveling maybe you butt or feet hurt. Use you head and think of something!

Thirdly, READ! I don't know how many times I've read post and then the next post from another player completely disregards or contradicts the prior post! Dangit, people, we don’t post things on the board for no reason! It puts a wrench in the works is Jim post that he walks off and goes hunting, but Sue post that she kisses him passionately. Honey, he can’t be in two places at once. You might think it is a minor detail and no biggie if you missed it, but it can really annoy the other players. So read, it doesn’t take for seconds and you know it might save you from asking a question that was answered already.

And lastly, if you plan to leave the Game, please email people. Or OOC…something, anything! It saves headaches, and maybe other players from dropping out. If you got real busy, and couldn’t post for a while- its ok, but giving people some warning helps! I sure if you asked the Moderators your account (if deactivated) can be restored. They are nice people; they won’t bite your head off for asking. But for heaven’s sake, don’t just disappear! And if another player sends you a concerned email, ANSWER! Hello, they took the time out to send it, take the four seconds to answer. It won’t kill you! Another thing, if a member in your party goes missing, Email them! Don’t just whine that so and so stopped posting, so I have nothing to do, so I’ll disappear…if they left, find out and move on. There are so many groups of people in this game; someone will likely welcome you in!

Ok…That’s it. Carry on.

By Rpiagra

Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 5:26 am GMT | Edit | Link |

It's a matter of "performing."

You know how they have drugs for Male Performance Enhancement?

Is there a drug for RPG Player Performance Enhancement?
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 7:05 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Though I might have phrased it differently, I do agree with everything said!

By Nicamenah (Nic)

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 5:48 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Okay, here's my rant!

Is anyone else sick of the terrible usage of suppose'd olde English as I am?

"Prick us, do we not bleed?
Wrong us, and shall we not revenge"


Holy Onomatopoeia, Batman! I doth protest! Get thee hither to a thesaurus! Jesus @#$%*& Christ in a chicken basket enough already! Just why do the majority of people in the world assume that fantasy must have an english accent and the vocabulary of Shakespeare?! What about all of the Paladins from Brooklyn, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Sydney, and Taiwan?! Accents of the Fantasy worlde unite!

We shall overcome someday!

By Anonymous

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 10:52 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Hands up everyone with a knowlege of medieval french? Anyone? You at the back there with the 'giles de rais was framed' shirt? Come on! don't they force the chanson de roland down yer throat on the continent? the morte d'arthur? Start ripping it off! Come on! Hey, if you don't wanna write in the medieval french because people might not understand it just go with the accent there like 'e says! What in zum outraaaaeeeeggeeeeooouuussss frenss wordage, it'll be just as authentic as adding E to everything!

Now hands up everyone here forced to do shakespeare in school? Few more hands there I think, even a couple paws. They never shoulda invented kennel club degrees. I bet that's an influence somewhere. Think I heard more than a few replies along the lines that accents are clandestinely middle-earth rather than tudor/stewart english, but they're keeping quiet about it in case some mod notices and complains they couldn't possible have an accent like that in a place like this.

Does anyone have that text book on the history of medieval brooklyn? I think Lucian might have swiped it for the library.

Gotta love the anonymous rant system, courage of the convictions right here. Cos I rule your mule.

D/N/T

By Nicamenah (Nic)

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 11:50 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Courage? Courage, doest thou say? How courageous thou art to post anonymously! I shalt hasten mine retreateth! LOL! I shalt prostrate mine self before thee, O'mighty one. Methinks thou doest mistaketh mine point.

My point was that this is a rant page, and after reading through all that stuff up above, my ears started to vomit, and I just had to unload. It's not that I want somebody to start posting in an ancient form of a foriegn language, although I wouldn't mind, after all take a look at some of my posts. (Yes, my character actually speaks Lakota.) It's that wherever I seem to go, everybody seems to tack on an english accent whether old or new, and I would just like to see some variety.

There's no role-playing bible which dictates that our characters have to speak that way. Besides, whoever said this setting was medieval, it's a fantasy, right? Ask a random Uman walking the streets of Terajin if he knows what the word medieval means. I'll bet ya dollars to dounuts that he hasn't got a clue. Medieval, is a completely Earthly term. And even if this Worlde were based upon medieval times, I'm sure that same random Uman still wouldn't have a clue if you asked him where England is or what magic is now that I think about it.

So, why do we fall back on the Olde English enunciation whenever we don our armor, especially when it doesn't make any sense to do so? Simple answer really, conditioning. Just like Pavlov's dogs, we all seem to tack on the Olde E (I'm guilty of it too!) when playing fantasy because that's all we ever hear connected with the genre. We hear it way too much, so much so in fact, that we start salivating whenever the fantasy bells ring.

However, do not misunderstand me, I am no facist. I'm not demanding that everyone exclude the Olde E. I'm merely ranting about it, which is my right here. I just want to see variety, originality, and inspiration, something I think we all wish for, whether in the free-form worlde, or the real world. Am I wrong?
 

By töff (Töff)

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 7:02 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Just wait til we get Olde Ufaerian posted.

By Anonymous

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 8:33 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Allwn arfer Cymraeg?

By Rogue Elementelle (Xerestal)

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 9:10 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

You're reading English, buddy. What kind of accent would you like?

By Anonymous

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 10:06 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Cuban? Introduce a dwarf with "Say hello to my leetle frien!"

By Anonymous

Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 11:51 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

I think, though I could be wrong, that the olde English accent is used here because most people here seem to speak english.
Now if we were all french...maybe it would be french, and so on. Though it is a valid point, it doesn't make much since to post in old french...Some of us Americans might not get it. ;) We are rude, and a one language speaking lot.

By Nicamenah (Nic)

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 12:47 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Thank you Xerestal for posting with your name, at least we know some people have courage behind their convictions, and Toff we all know is a stand-up comedian... er guy :-). I am really enjoying this conversation... A Tony Montana dwarf? I love it LOL!

By Imp (Imp)

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 1:37 am GMT | Edit | Link |

"Say hello to my leetle frien!"... Hahahahah... can I use it, can I use it, can I use it?

Ehhh, so what's my rant? Ehhh, let me think... Oh, ok, here it is: "argh*&!!#:<!, grrahg^%$*!, phlbb%&&(*@!!." And now in English: "lame! dame! bame!" And now in French: "lahm! dahm! bahm!".

So what is the point. What's the point? There is no point. Ranting is a means, not an end. A means to no end. So get off the mule, anonymool, the point is well made: Hey, thous, enouffeth of the th's! I mean, Lady Jillian has an excuse, she's Royalty (and thus snooty, and thus British), but the elven ranger?
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 3:23 am GMT | Edit | Link |

We do speak English because all do indeed understand it if one but speaks slowly and loudly enough...

Why, just recently, two prarie savages did heed my call for their surrender, given of course in grammatically perfect English! Not to mention, this language may be well understood by barbarian, ah, I be informed the preferred term be uncouth, so then uncouth nobles of Eireland.

By Kayne O'Chrysllach (Kayne)

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 4:30 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Better to say, though I detest either, simply barbarian, or "eccentric" However, terms most acceptable I will give ye to use. Ye would in my world, for instance, simply be called an "Outsider" or an "Other-worlder". These are preferred most of all and I would request their use from henceforth.

By Anonymous

Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 9:53 am GMT | Edit | Link |

There are only two true outsiders in all the worlds throughout the multiverse: Kevin Nash and Scott Hall.

D/N/T

By MisterEd

Sunday, December 5, 2004 - 12:29 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

There aren't enough tall dwarves around.

Or Talking Horses.

Or dimensionally misplaced pizza huts.

Dont laugh - it could happen.

 

By töff (Töff)

Monday, December 20, 2004 - 4:17 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

To those who believe the word "Christmas" is an imposition of somebody else's religious morals ...

To those who believe Santa should be banned, because after all he arose from a Christian saint (Nicholas) ...

To those who have been brainwashed into thinking that "tolerance" entails eradicating any mention of faith ...

To those who think "Happy Holidays" has no connotation of religion (hello, it means "holy days") ...

... and to everyone else, of course! :-) ...

MERRY
CHRISTMAS !!!

And before you say "What a typical righteous high-and-mighty Christian!" ... be advised ... I'm NOT a Christian.

Hey, I just like Christmas, okay?

Can you TOLERATE that?

Seasons Greetings, Happy Holy-Days, Merry Christmas,
Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa,
and Whatever Tweaks Your Nipples!

Peace And Joy Be Upon Ye

 

By royalty in disguise (Ariana)

Monday, December 20, 2004 - 7:31 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

If it helps, the image of Santa we know today in the U.S. is actually based on an advertising scheme for Coca-Cola. Before that it was the Father Christmas character.

Oh, and most of the Christmas traditions are based off of "Pagan" rituals that the Christians took over when trying to convert the people. Would you join a religion if they tried to take away all your fun times?

And I am a Christian. I just love all the holiday stuff, whatever the holiday you happen to celebrate.

Happy Holidays, all!
 

By Kymera Ravenwood the Dryad (Kymera)

Monday, December 20, 2004 - 7:51 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking, Toff. I enjoy just about ALL the holidays, and don't give a fig whether or not they are currently "politically correct". Extremism in either direction is still extremism. Let's hope the pendulum will swing back to the middle again soon! Meanwhile, MERRY CHRISTMAS to one and all!

By Badly scarred one-eyed Uman (Maeve)

Monday, December 20, 2004 - 9:46 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp

"As we just pointed out above, the modern Santa had "elbowed aside all comers" long before the 1940s, and well before Coca-Cola co-opted him as their wintertime advertising symbol"

Based off Thomas Nast, Darlings.

I gotta go mix a bowl of porrige and find a good hard bean, and a sucker.

Have fun y'all!

The sun will rise again.

By Female From AUStralia (Ffaus)

Monday, December 20, 2004 - 11:16 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Well, I'm pagan too... and I'm ambivalent about Christmas... but my other half and kids celebrate it and I'm not going to spoil their enjoyment.

We've come to a compromise... generally (because this is in Australia and it's not yule but our Summer solstice).

We have our 'Christmas' dinner a few days before (as close to the solstice as possible). It's also because my other half is a paramedic and generally works on Christmas day and going by the record so far... he gets at least one callout on Christmas day and it's always in the middle of Christmas dinner. So we try to have it when he's on a day off, works to all our advantages.

So, Blessed Be and Merry Christmas to all.

By Anonymous

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 12:15 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Humbug!

Humbug, I say! I could give a rat's posterior why Christmas came about as it is today! I could care equally less which religious observance started it all! What it all boils down to is this: I get gifts! And since I rarely if ever get them, that's what it's all about! It's not about why, or how. So, Merry freakin Christmas y'all! Now send me some gifts before I whip out some ghosts of Christmas past, present, and futures, to get medievil on ya!

This message brought to you by Coca-Cola, and Christians who have lost their way


ROFLMAO! Merry X-mas!

By The Saint of Swords; High Watcher over Seven Oaks (Yuriko)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 12:48 am GMT | Edit | Link |

I'm a Papist and I'm proud of it! So I say, off to Dante's Inferno with all of this politically correct secularization nonsense!

It's Christ's Mass, the Anniversary of Christ's Birth, and you'll all remember it, if you know what's good for you!

Peace on Earth, Goodwill to All...

By Anonymous

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 1:17 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Yuriko - you do realize that the christmas thing is originally hijacked from pagans in order to convert them to christianity? Its just a few days away from winter solactice.

Besides, anyone with a brain knows that now a days, "christmas" isn't about religion, its about making money:D
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 1:42 am GMT | Edit | Link |

In this season of Joy and Celebration, I would like to give my Christmas/Feast of First Fire wish:

I wish for Peace in the Worlde...

An end to Poverty and Suffering...

And INVINCIBLE WEAPONS SO THAT I CAN BRING MY FOES TO THEIR KNEES!
 

By royalty in disguise (Ariana)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 3:39 am GMT | Edit | Link |

lol Jillian. Good wishes. My other half is too much of a geek to believe in the religious stuff, but he figures, since Christmas is a federal holiday in the U.S., he can celebrate. I just have to keep my nativity scenes and stuff little. :-)
 

By royalty in disguise (Ariana)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 3:42 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Oh yeah...

"The man-sized version of Santa became the dominant image around 1841, when a Philadelphia merchant named J.W. Parkinson hired a man to dress in "Criscringle" clothing and climb the chimney outside his shop. "

It's still from an advertising scheme. :D

By The Saint of Swords; High Watcher over Seven Oaks (Yuriko)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 10:30 am GMT | Edit | Link |

It's sad, Anonymous, that in parts of the world, Christmas is just a marketing gimmick.

Around here, the spiritual aspect is very much alive--would people wake up to attend mass at four in the morning consecutively for just a marketing gimmick?

Frankly, I'm glad the holiday was appropriated by the Church rather than remaining ensconced in the Teutonic backwoods; whatever else, so much good has come from it.

By Yellow eyed Elfling (Wynne)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 1:24 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

I agree with Jillian, you've got the right idea right there:D

and yuriko, I'm what your church has labelled as "heathen", thanks for offending me and my religious society. OFcourse, I'd love to debate the "good" of the church, but seeing as the commercia holidays are comming (and mine being today) I'm rather going to sit on my behind, smile like the goofball I am and appologize if I've offended you...I'm even taking the anonymous sicker off, oh my!

By Argroww GhostWalker (Argroww)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 1:55 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

The whole arguement of what Christmas is about will never be won, it means different things to different people, I'm not religious myself and chrismas has always been about santa claus and presents and the whole snow and reindeer thing. However that is not to say that I'm not aware of the religious side, my parnter is christian and does believe in god, to her Christmas is about Jesus and all that. Some do not celebrate christmas in any way shape or form.

We live in a multiultural world, and for that to work there must be acceptance and tolerance. We like what we like, and as long as it doesn't harm anyone else then it's okay (or is that a little too black and white?)
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 5:45 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

I would have to believe my invincible weapons will in fact cause great harm. Is that okay?
 

By töff (Töff)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 5:47 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

LOL who gets to define "harm"? :-) Aye there's the rub.
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 5:49 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Well, I expect I will be defining harm. Presumably the other side, the wrong side, will be defeated or dead.

By Anonymous

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 7:15 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.

By Rogue Elementelle (Xerestal)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 10:32 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Wynne, if you're offended by anything Yuriko said, I think you're a little oversensitive.

Who cares where Christmas came from, anyway? Why does it matter? Why not simply accept it for what it is: an excuse to spend time away from work, hang out with family, and recieve some new stuff?

By Yellow eyed Elfling (Wynne)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 10:43 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

I think I'll side with Jillian here, seeing as anyone not on Jillians side is obviously going to receive some considerable damage.
 

By töff (Töff)

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 10:58 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Let's REALLY offend each other. Let's talk not only religion, but sex & politics also. And can we throw race in there too?This is how to live insult-free. It works for me. Water off a duck! :-) LOL and good luck!

... unless you really LIKE being offended. In that case, life is full of opportunities to be offended. But don't think the ability to be offended makes you special in any way. Anybody can do it.

Now, if that offends you, and you don't like it ... read my list again :-)

By Anonymous

Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 11:30 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

My midwinter festival dates back to the Viking rule in England.

Basically, we're gonna walk into a village kill all the men, twice-kill all the women (it is England), enslave the children, steal everything and set the rest on fire.

That is, if it isn't too damp to burn.

'Evil' Christianity? Pah! You can keep it. The peaceful pagan traditions of the vikings are much more fun. Crusades? A little scuffle compared to what the viking cultural exchange achieved, and that's before the great fleets set out for actual conquest. Just think - if it wasn't for King Alfred, the English would all be driving volvos rather than.... whatever it is the English drive.

Now there's a thought.

 

By Rex Sacrorum of Seven Oaks (Virtuous_i)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 1:31 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Merry Christmas from the Holy Church of the Reclaimer!

May all the citizens of arcane find eternal hope, love, joy, and life that is the message of this festive season. The Rex Sacrorum of seven oaks offers Jillian, and all thee an invincible weapon that can bring her foes to their knees - Love. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and love thy neighbour as thyself.

Ooc: message from Tarquin:

Perhaps the calendar day was borrowed from other religions but not its meaning. To take one day out of the year to celebrate the coming of undoubtedly the most influential individual in history and his message of hope and universal love cannot be such a bad idea, even if you deny his divinity and are appalled by the actions of some misguided individuals. Evil has been practised in the name of virtually every cause (democracy, freedom, peace, science, et cetera). It is illogical to abandon that cause because of its malpractice. Adopting the "Harm Principle" as one's standard of ethics is extremely problematic and although accepted in popular culture, fails utterly both in practice and in theory. I should welcome any challenge on this subject as well, but if 'tis not the season or the place, than we may let the issue rest.

As for Christmas being only a commercial venture, I too felt that once not so long ago. Having found myself on a frigid hill on the Bosnian-Croatian boarder one Christmas eve however, I discovered a more profound meaning in this celebration. It is my prayer that all of you may one day find that meaning, and find it in a happier place than I.

Merry Christmas to all!
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 1:34 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Instead of a Dark Lord, ye shall have a Queen of Light, beautiful and terrible to behold, stronger than the foundations of the worlde...All men shall love me, and despair....

By Imp (Imp)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 1:52 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Why is there no Christmas in Arcane? I don't mean the celebration of a deity, but a great, big day off from work with presents and egg nogg and drunken pony riding and stuff like that. I now humbly suggest that every other weekend be like that. Maybe that's a job for Lady Jillian, what with all her high and mighty connections with the heads of this and that.

Well, anyways, looks like I finally found the place to offend, so it's time to get down to business. I offend you! Hehe. That's right, you. And you. And you, and you, and you. And her. And him. Especially him. Hehe.

Santa Claus is so fat, he went on a diet. (Laughter, applause.) Hehe. Thank you.

The elves are so stupid, they gave all the presents away. Hehehe. Thank you, thank you.
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 3:12 am GMT | Edit | Link |

If thou wouldst peruse the 'Calender' link on the left-hand frame of the main page, silly little creature, thou wouldst note there indeed be 'Feast of First Fire,' a day so important 'tis not even a part of any month! (Parenthetically, there is also a more logical calender in Arcane than is used in the RW, but House Griphon has no power there...) And indeed, I do in fact receive a bounty of presents each and every Feast of First Fire, 'tis my favourite day. Excepting perhaps my birthday. Which conveniently occurs just thirty days before Feast of First Fire...

Perhaps in the future, horrid little beast, thou might be inclined to conduct thine own research, rather than relying upon a universitie student (currently on extended break, to be sure) to inform thee of the ways of the worlde. Nobles do after all have matters of much greater import to contemplate than the calender!
 

By royalty in disguise (Ariana)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 4:56 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Yes, like making wish lists for things like invincible swords to bring foes to their knees. :-)

By Anonymous

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 9:59 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Hehehehehehe! I'm beginning to like that Imp!

Just one thing though, you foul lil'beastie from Hades, or Gehenna, or the Nine Hells, or whichever underworld name is in vogue these days.

Did Santa go on the Atkins Diet, or is he doing the regular old eat sensible meals with exercise routine? Because inquiring celery eating Quasits want to know.

By Imp (Imp)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 10:35 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Lady Jillian walks into a bar... bonk!
Man, you'd've thought she would see it.

Hehehe.
Thank you, thank you very much.

By Badly scarred one-eyed Uman (Maeve)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 1:00 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Lady Jillian walks into a bar... bonk!

Heck, that is the punchline.
 

By Jillian Griphon, 3rd daughter of Duke Griphon (Jillian)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 5:41 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

This be the inevitable result when base commoners be drunken louts and shall not clear away from the path of a Noble Lady of Daelows with sufficient alacrity...And our gratitude be extended to the Noble Gentleman who did so promptly move the miserable sot out of our way!

By Badly scarred one-eyed Uman (Maeve)

Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 6:57 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Drunken lout?

Ah, ye know me of olde lady.

By Imp (Imp)

Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 4:17 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Maeve... duh!
Celery eating Quasit... hehe... blah!

Duh, blah, duh-duh, blah-blah. It's a song! Thank you, thank you very much.

Santa so fat, he sat on a Rupee and made change. Hehehe. Thank you. Thank you very much. You're too kind.

By Father of things that go bump in the night (Tarquin)

Friday, December 24, 2004 - 4:20 am GMT | Edit | Link |

Apologies for detracting from this most intellectual debate.

I would like to address a point made above:

Yuriko - you do realize that the christmas thing is originally hijacked from pagans in order to convert them to christianity? Its just a few days away from winter solactice.

I for one do not "realize this". Simply put, this view has not been accepted as fact. Research by Dr. William Tighe, Associate Professor of History at Muhlenberg College has provided significant evidence to suggest exactly the opposite.

Merry Christmas to all!
 

By töff (Töff)

Friday, December 24, 2004 - 7:41 am GMT | Edit | Link |

LOL @ "solactice" ... is that like "sun milk"?

By Imp (Imp)

Friday, December 24, 2004 - 8:34 am GMT | Edit | Link |

A Quasit sneaks into a kitchen and pours himself some celactice. Hehehe. Thank you very much.

That's right, folks, Dr. W. Tighe and his research suggested that christianity was hijacked from pagans in order to convert them to christmas. Hehehe. (Boo, boooo). Hm. Tough croud. We have some pagans in the audience. Thank you very much. Hey, but I'm a pagan myself... I get no respect, that's all.
 

By royalty in disguise (Ariana)

Friday, December 24, 2004 - 8:43 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

I was watching a thing on the History channel last night and they said that the date of Dec. 25th was taken from the Roman cult of Mithra, which worshipped the a sun god and celebrated the rising of the sun on that day. The name "Santa Claus" comes from the Dutch version of St. Nicholas - "Sinter Klaus (sorry, my spelling might be off). Christmas was actually forbidden in Puritan England and in the early Puritan colonies because it was based off of a "Pagan" celebration and was celebrated more like Carnival today. Oh and Rudolf was invented by a guy at Montgomery Ward. Interesting program. If it repeats, I reccommend it, though I've learned to take what the history channel says with a grain of salt.

By Father of things that go bump in the night (Tarquin)

Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 1:05 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

There are some Christian's today that do not celebrate Christmas for this reason. The argument however comes to us from seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and is based on the coincidental dates of the winter solstice and "Christmas".

Tighe argues that there is little evidence to support the position that Roman Pagans held any celebrations December 25th prior to the institution of "The Birth of the Unconquered Sun" by Emperor Aurelian in 274AD. He also maintains that sun cults, such as Aurelian's and Mithraism, were not prominent in Rome until about this period. Prior to this second century creation, these cults did not have festivals associated with solstices or equinoxes. The celebration itself seems to have been created to unite Pagan cults. It is equally, and entirely possible that Aurelian selected an already established date on the Roman Christian calendar for political reasons and to make a statement.

Over and above this, there is good reason to see why the early Church would have selected December 25th to mark the Christ's birth. Tighe argues that the date was arrived at during attempts to establish the dates of His death and resurrection by Latin Christians.

There is no countering a conspiracy theory and the December 25 is close to the winter solstice. We can however conclude that there is at least equal, if not better evidence to suggest that Christmas is not a pagan holiday "hijacked" by Christians to win over followers. It is in fact a truly Christian holiday.

Well, I for one am going to eat my left over Chinese food this morning in good conscience.

Merry Christmas everyone!

By Imp (Imp)

Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 12:57 am GMT | Edit | Link |

This is getting stranger and stranger. I am no authority on any of this, but I'd always (always? :-)) been under the impression that it was not the holidays of Roman pagans that's at issue, but the pagan holiday of non-Roman pagans. That is: the Germanic tribes of present-day Europe (Italy excluded), who were conquered by Romans militarily, but not culturally. Then the Christmas thingy was super-imposed on an already-existing pagan thingy. It was thus more easily accepted, primarily for psychological reasons.

By Imp (Imp)

Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 1:03 am GMT | Edit | Link |

To make my point more clear: Roman sun-worship has little to do with this. And: the christmas tree is a woodland spirit from the European (again, Germany, etc) woods, not Italy. Which is great, 'cause it smells better, grows where me and my friends live, and is probably easier to decorate. It worked out great!

A green orc walks into a bar. The bartender sais: "Hey, buddy, we got a drink named after you!" The orc says: "What? You got a drink called Gregor?" Hehe. Hehehe. Thank you very much.

By Anonymous

Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 1:21 am GMT | Edit | Link |

When the Romans observed the feast of saturn, part of the ceremony was the raising of an evergreen bough.

The Egyptians were part of a long line of cultures that treasured and worshipped evergreens.

Like the midwinter festivals, these things turn up everywhere. Look! it's green all year round! Isn't that MAGIC?

The druids had mistletoe and so on, but then the tradition left the UK for the best part of 2000 years... until the german Prince Albert brought it in.
 

By töff (Töff)

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 9:28 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

The Mad Dash

I have something to say about moving a character "instantly" across the Worlde. I admit that I have done it, so (a) I am not getting high and mighty, and (b) I ought to know what I am talking about.

I can sympathize with the desire to take your character from (for example) some place in Ufaeria, and just "jump the pawn across the board" to Aniada or Upper Noitnetta or wherever, because there's some story you want to join, probably because you made big plans via IM or email. I mean, there's your friends' characters over THERE, and your PC is stuck down HERE, for whatever reason. Maybe you started in the wrong place ... maybe your story died (it happens) ... the point is, you need to move a long way, fast. It happens to everybody, eventually. What matters is what you do about it.

You can do it in various ways. That pesky Rule#6 about "leaving a trail" is easily overcome just by posting thirty times, spot to spot, with posts completely devoid of RP, such as "(ooc) from Area 13 (ooc) to Area 15." Of course, some characters just teleport, too -- often without even bothering to say how or why. You can ride a flying dragon, or find a convenient tunnel through the UnderNeath. At least some people make a token attempt to abide by the letter of the Rule#6 (albeit at the expense of Rule#7). Some people don't even try. And let's not even talk about Rule #4.

But in the end, it really doesn't matter how you perform the Mad Dash. What matters is that you have cheated yourself and others out of the spirit of the gameworld.
[Aside: The "five hour rule" that was rescinded over a year ago, saying that characters can only post twice a day and no less than five hours apart, attempted to prevent this. In review, it turned out to be more of a restriction to "fair" play than an inhibitor of poor play. Review Rule#7 to see the more liberal incarnation of this concept. I mention this to highlight the fact that every attempt is being made, behind the scenes, to maximize your freeform RP opportunities, "within the scope and protection and maintenance of our game world."]
First of all, you cheapen the vastness and depth of Worlde Arcane when you imply that it is not worth travelling through, that it doesn't even amount to an obstacle, that is it really nothing more than an "inconvenience." This gameworld has two origins:Ignoring the first is an insult to the people who built the foundations. Avoiding the second is laziness at best, selfishness at worst.

Also, you cheat other players out of the pleasure of meeting your character. I assume you think your character is cool and worthy and interesting (if you don't, why are you even playing?). When you fly past those other characters, you are saying, "I don't want to get involved with you." Are they not good enough for you? Are you too good for them? ... Of course, you'll say, "Hey, there was no one there; why should I wait? Rule#7 doesn't apply." But you don't know who might show up, do you? New players often want to start by meeting someone on a road: a character travelling alone is an approachable situation. Also, existing characters might be on the very verge of moving to the area you just posted at! Let's alsonot forget that Nobles often introduce elements designed purely for your entertainment and gaming pleasure ("spice"). And if you disregard Rule#7, then your chance of benefitting from any of that is ... zero.

Furthermore, you are cheating your own character. A character develops over time, through history, with backstory. The only way to accomplish this development is to play out scenes. Hopping your poor pawn from one side of the board to the other introduces a break in character continuity. I bet you a hundred bucks cash that no character, after having performed a Mad Dash, ever again even thinks back on it. With such an event introduced for a purely OOC reason, and then ignored in the character himself, you "unrealize" your PC. You make him an unreal character. Isn't character development difficult enough without a wild splice right in the middle?

Worst of all, you are cheating YOURSELF, as a player. The primary reason people enter gameworlds is to explore the unknown and enjoy adventures in newly discovered settings. The character is only a vehicle; the reward is exposure to the gameworld for the player. When you jump from Ufaeria to Upper Noitnetta, you just cheated YOURSELF out of everything and everybody that was between those two points.
This is an interactive game.

If you want to write alone, go write fiction. Publish in Wayfarer.

If you want to play with a small group of friends, without worrying about being "interrupted" (LOL) then go play by email (PBeM).

If you want to play in Worlde Arcane ... play *IN* Worlde Arcane.

By Moderator (Kymera)

Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:20 pm GMT | Edit | Link |

Well said, Toff. I recall when I first joined Worlde Arcane and in the first flush of excitement often found myself impatient under the old five hour rule, wanting to move my story (and character) along quickly.

However, there came a time when it dawned on me that it was not the speed with which I moved things along that mattered, but the content of each post in weaving a rich tapestry of experience and background for my character and others I encountered along the way.

So now when I start to feel impatient with a story and its pace, I sit back and ask myself, "Why?" The game is not going to disappear overnight (hopefully), so what is the hurry? Each post is an opportunity to add something to the story, to engage other players, and to hone writing skills.